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Penubuhan sekolah vernakular sah, boleh tutur bahasa Mandarin, Tamil
Sinar Harian
Sinar Harian
November 23, 2023 02:45 MYT

Penubuhan sekolah vernakular sah, boleh tutur bahasa Mandarin, Tamil
Mahkamah Rayuan pada Khamis memutuskan penubuhan sekolah vernakular adalah sah dengan Perlembagaan Persekutuan. - Gambar fail

PUTRAJAYA : Mahkamah Rayuan di sini pada Khamis memutuskan penubuhan sekolah vernakular yang menggunakan bahasa Mandarin dan Tamil sebagai bahasa pengantar adalah sah dengan Perlembagaan Persekutuan.

Panel tiga hakim diketuai Datuk Supang Lian yang bersidang bersama Datuk M Gunalan dan Datuk Azizul Azmi Adnan sebulat suara memutuskan demikian selepas menolak rayuan difailkan empat pertubuhan bukan kerajaan (NGO).

Mereka ialah Ikatan Guru-Guru Muslim Malaysia (i-Guru), Majlis Pembangunan Pendidikan Islam (Mappim), Gabungan Persatuan Penulis Malaysia (Gapena) dan Ikatan Muslimin Malaysia (Isma).

Pada Disember 2019, lima NGO iaitu Gabungan Pelajar Melayu Semenanjung (GPMS), Mappim, Gapena dan Isma memfailkan saman terhadap 13 pihak antaranya kerajaan Malaysia, kumpulan pendidik Cina Dong Zong dan Jiao Zong, Persatuan Thamizhar Malaysia serta Persatuan Tamilar Thurunal (Perak).

I-Guru pula menamakan Menteri Pendidikan dan kerajaan Malaysia, memohon deklarasi bahawa Seksyen 17 serta Seksyen 28 Akta Pendidikan 1996 adalah tidak konsisten dengan Perkara 152 Perlembagaan Persekutuan, maka ia perlu dibatalkan.

NGO-NGO itu mencabar keabsahan sekolah vernakular dan menyatakan penggunaan bahasa Mandarin serta Tamil sebagai bahasa perantaraan utama di sekolah vernakular adalah bercanggah dengan Perkara 152 Perlembagaan Persekutuan.

Majlis Bahasa Cina Malaysia, Persatuan Tamil Neri Malaysia, Gabungan Persatuan Bekas Pelajar Sekolah Tamil Malaysia, MCA dan Persekutuan Persatuan-Persatuan Lembaga Pengurus Sekolah Cina Malaysia (Dong Zong) telah dibenarkan mencelah dalam saman yang difailkan oleh I-Guru.

Pada 29 Disember 2021, Hakim Mahkamah Tinggi, Datuk Mohd Nazlan Mohd Ghazali (kini Hakim Mahkamah Rayuan) menolak saman GPMS, Mappim, Gapena and Isma.

Mohd Nazlan memutuskan bahawa kewujudan dan penubuhan sekolah vernakular serta penggunaan bahasa Mandarin dan Tamil di sekolah terbabit adalah sah serta berperlembagaan.

Pada 29 Mei tahun lepas, Pesuruhjaya Kehakiman, Abazafree Mohd Abbas (kini Hakim Mahkamah Tinggi) turut memutuskan bahawa kewujudan sekolah vernakular adalah sah dan berperlembagaan ketika beliau menolak saman I-Guru.

Pada Disember 2021 dan Mei 2022, Mappim, Gapena, Isma dan I-Guru merayu terhadap keputusan Mahkamah Tinggi Kuala Lumpur dan Kota Bharu yang menolak saman mereka.

Bagaimanapun, hanya GPMS tidak memfailkan rayuan.

Semasa hujahan prosiding rayuan itu, peguam kanan Persekutuan, Liew Horng Bin, mewakili Menteri Pendidikan dan kerajaan berhujah bahawa penggunaan bahasa lain sebagai bahasa pengantar di sekolah rendah vernakular tidak bercanggah dengan Perlembagaan Persekutuan kerana bahasa kebangsaan diajar sebagai mata pelajaran wajib di sekolah terbabit.

Peguam, Mohamed Haniff Khatri Abdulla, yang mewakili Mappim dan Gapena dalam hujahan balasnya berkata, disebabkan pendidikan merupakan urusan rasmi, maka penggunaan bahasa sebagai medium pengajaran wajiblah dalam bahasa Melayu.

Katanya, Mohd Nazlan terkhilaf apabila memutuskan penggunaan bahasa Mandarin dan Tamil sebagai bahasa pengantar di sekolah vernakular adalah sah dan berperlembagaan. -


https://www.astroawani.com/berita-malaysia/penubuhan-sekolah-vernakular-sah-boleh-tutur-bahasa-mandarin-tamil-447164?amp=1

If this 2020s war on farming sounds familiar, that's because it's another example of history repeating. A hundred years ago, Joseph Stalin was plotting how to destroy the kulaks and confiscate their land and property for the glory of the Soviet empire.

Hal qof oo Mareexaan ah oo RW Xamse cay la daba taagan arki maysid, Mareexaan waa dad gob ah oo aaminsan inay Daarood meteli karaan iyagana Ogaden meteli karo.

Waxa la joogaa xiligii Kablalax ka garaabi lahaa oo xaal ka bixin lahaa isbaaradii Ini Deni oo gabaad ka dhiganayey magacooda uu u dhigtay Madaxweyne Farmaajo.

Shalay hadii ay Deni u shaqaysay inuu kaar Kablalaxnimo kula dagaalamo Farmaajo, siyaasadaas waa la isku fahmay kama aqbali doono kaar Hartinimo inuu Xamse u xoqdo.

Waxaan doonayaa oo dhexda u xirtay Daarood mid ah, walaalo ah, wax isu ogol oo si siman isu meteli kara, heshiisna la ah Soomaalida kale ee walaalahood ah.

Shiine Culay
Madaxweynaha beesha Daarood ee baraha bulshada.

"Madaxweyne Cashuurta Dalka Xisbiyada Mucaaradku May Kula Guraan Oo Dadkay Juwano U Jaraan"Gudoomiyaha Xisbiga Wadani Ee G.Gabiley

Wasiirka Wasaradda Horumarinta Maalgashiga Iyo Warshadaha Hon.Amina Elmi Fariid iyo Agaasimaha Guud ee Wasaaradda Horumarinta Maalgashiga iyo Warshadaha Jamhuuriyadda Somaliland Maxamed Cismaan Siciid
Ayaa Saaka Ku Qaabiley Wafti Ka socday Dawlada South Africa Oo U Hogaaminayeey Safiirka Somaliland u fadhiya South Africa Mr Axmed Jaamac Hasan,

Wafti sare oo ka kooban Maalgashato iyo Ganacsato ka socday Wasaaradda Ganacsiga, Maalgashiga iyo Warshadaha ee South africa, Waftigan oo uu Hoggaaminayay Madaxa Maalgashiga South Africa Mr. Yunus Hoosen.

Kulan Oo Saacado Badan Socdey Oo Ay La Qaaten Masuuliyiinta Ugu Sar Sareeya Wasaaradda Horumarinta Maalgashiga Iyo Warshada Ayaa lagaga wada hadlay Maalgashiga dhinaca Xoolaha oo ay danaynayeen waftigani, sidoo kale Waxay Dhankooda Waftiga Ka Socday South Africa Oo Boogeen Fursadaha Maalgashiya Ee Tiradda Badan Ee Ka Banaan Jamhuriyada Somaliland

Maalin xasuus weyn nagu leh (7-may-2021)

Dhagar qabe maxamed qasaaye iyo team-kiisa caqabad ayay ku ahayeen jiritaanka Soomaaliyeed ???????? allahii na dhaafiyay baa Mahad kulligeed isk Leh kulahaa.!????????????????

Badbaado Qaran muraadkooda maxaad dhahdeen.?

Pandavas And Kauravas (Historical Story)
In the dynasty of Peru, there was Bharata and in Bharata's family, there was king kuru. Shantanu was born in the lineage of Kuru. Ganganandan Bhishma was born from Shantanu. He had two more younger brothers - Chitrangad and Vichitravinya. He was bom from the womb of Satyavati from Shantanu. After the departure of Shantanu, Bhishma remained unmarried and followed the kingdom of his brother Vichitravirya: Chitrangad was killed in his childhood by the people of Gandharva caste named Chitrangad. Then after defeating the opposition in Bhishma Sangram, he brought back the two daughters of Kashiraj - Ambika and Ambalika. Both of them became the wives of Vichitravirya. After some time, King Vichitravirya became a resident of heaven due to Rajayakshma. Then King Dhritarashtra was born from Ambika's womb and Pandu from Ambalika's womb. Dhritarashtra gave birth to hundred sons from Gandhari's womb, of whom Duryodhana was the eldest and Pandu had five sons like Yudhishtar, Bhima, Arjuna, Nakula, Sahadeva etc. Dhritarashtra was blind from birth, so Pandu replaced him. Dhritarashtra was made the king, due to this Dhritarashtra always got angry on his blindness and started feeling hatred towards Pandu. By conquering the whole of India, Pandu extended the boundaries of the Kuru kingdom to the country of the Yavanas. Once King Pandu went to the forest for hunting with his two wives - Kunti and Madri. There he saw a mating pair of antelope. Pandu immediately wounded that deer with his arrow. After some time when the antelope died. Then Pandu felt remorse. Then King Pandu said - I will stay in this forest after giving up all the lusts, you people go back to Hastinapur". After listening to his words, both the queens said in sorrow, "Nath! We cannot survive even for a moment without you. Please keep us with you in the forest." Pandu accepted their request and allowed them to stay with him in the forest. One day King Pandu was traveling with Madri in the forest on the banks of river Sarita. The atmosphere was very pleasant and the wind was blowing cool, soft and fragrant. A sudden gust of wind blew away Madri's clothes. This made Pandu's mind fickle and they indulged in sexual intercourse. After many years, they had five sons. After a few days Later he died due to sadness, anxiety and illness. Madri committed sati with him but Kunti returned to Hastinapura to bring up the sons. On being told, everyone accepted the Pandavas as the sons of Pandu and welcomed them. When Kunti was not married, at the same time Karna was born from her womb by King Surya. But fearing public shame, Kunti gave Karna a Locked in a box and thrown into the river Ganges. Karna was flowing in the Ganges when Maharaj Dhritarashtra's charioteer Adhirath and his wife Radha saw him and Adopted him and started taking care of him. From a young age, Karna was more interested in the art of war than driving a chariot like his father Adhiratha. Karna and his father Adhiratha met Acharya Drona who was one of the best masters of the art of warfare at that time. Dronacharya used to give education to the Kuru princes at that time. He refused to teach Karna because Karna was a charioteer's son and Drona used to teach only Kshatriyas. After Dronacharya's disagreement, Karna contacted Parashurama who used to teach only Brahmins. Calling himself a Brahmin, Karna requested Parshuram for education. Parshuram accepted Karna's request and trained Kama in the art of warfare and archery like himself. Thus Karna became a very diligent and accomplished disciple of Parashurama. Karna lived in the shelter of Duryodhana. The fire of enmity between the Kauravas and the Pandavas ignited due to the treachery of Daiyoga and Shakuni. Duryodhana was a man of very bad intelligence. He tried to kill the Pandavas many times in his childhood at the behest of Shakuni. When Yudhishthira, who was superior to him in virtues, was made the crown prince in his youth, Shakuni tried to set the Pandavas on fire by keeping them in the house made of Laksh, but with the help of Vidura, the five Pandavas along with their mother escaped from that burning house. Got out From there, going to Ekachakra Nagri, he started living in the house of a Brahmin in the guise of a sage. Then after killing the evil and sinful named Bak, on the advice of Vyas ji, he went to Panchal-state, where Draupadi's swayamvar was about to take place. In the kingdom of Panchal, the five Pandavas got Draupadi as their wife when Arjuna's target-piercing skills got fishy. Before Draupadi's Swayamvara, except Vidura, all the Pandavas were considered dead, and for this reason, Dhritarashtra made Duryodhana the crown prince at the behest of Shakuni. After Draupadi Swayamvar, Duryodhana etc. came to know about the survival of Pandavas: The Pandavas asked for their kingdom from the Kauravas, but to avoid the danger of civil war, Yudhishthira received Khandavan as half of the kingdom given by the Kauravas in ruins. Pandukumar Arjun burnt Khandawan with Shri Krishna. There Arjuna and Krishna ji defeated all the gods in the war He got Lord Krishna-like charioteer in the battle. At the behest of Indra, Vishwakarma and Maya together built Khandawan into a city as grand as Indrapuri, which was named Indraprastha. All the Pandavas were expert in all kinds of learning. Pandavas conquered all directions and Yudhishthira started ruling. He performed the ritual of Rajasuya Yajna full of abundant gold money. His magnificence became unbearable for Duryodhana. He took Shakuni along with him at the behest of his brother Dushasana and son of glory Karna, indulged in gambling in the gaming assembly, won Yudhishthira, his brothers, Draupadi and their kingdom laughingly through deceit and gambling. Duryodhana insulted Draupadi a lot in the Kuru Rajya Sabha, tried to disrobe her. Shri Krishna saved her shame, after that Draupadi was about to curse everyone but Gandhari came and stopped this from happening. At the same time, being defeated in gambling, Yudhishthira went to the forest with his brothers. There he spent twelve years as per his vow. He used to feed majority of Brahmins everyday in the forest as before. There he was accompanied by his wife Draupadi and priest Dhaumyaji. After passing the twelfth year, he went to Virat Nagar. There Yudhishthira started living in the form of a Brahmin named 'Kank', remaining unknown to most. Bhimsen became the cook. Arjun had named himself 'Brihannala Pandava wife Draupadi started living in Ranivaas as Sairandhri, Similarly, Nakul-Sahdev also changed their names. Bhimsen killed Kichak who wanted to take Draupadi's chastity in the night. After that, the Kauravas started taking away Virat's cows, then they were defeated by Arjuna. At that time, Kauravas recognised the Pandavas, Shri Krishna's sister Subhadra gave birth to a son named Abhimanyu from Arjuna, King Virat married him with his daughter Uttara Dharmaraj Yudhishthira being the master of seven Akshauhini army got ready to fight with Kauravas. First Lord Krishna went to the most angry Duryodhana as a messenger. He said to King Duryodhana, the master of the eleven Akshauhini army Rajan! You give half the kingdom to Yudhishthira or offer him only five villages: Otherwise fight with them." After listening to Shri Krishna, Duryodhana said - 'I will not even give him land equal to the tip of a needle, Yes, I will definitely fight with them. Then Vidur took him to his home and worshiped and honored Shri Krishna. After that he returned to Yudhishthir and said-Maharaj! You fight with Duryodhana! The armies of Yudhishthira and Duryodhana went to the field of Kurukshetra. Seeing the teachers like Grandfather Bhishma and Acharya Drona in his opposition, Arjuna stopped fighting, then Lord Krishna said to him "Parthal Bhishma etc. teachers are not worthy of mourning." Follow Kshatradharma, taking the shelter of Karmayoga, being equal in success and failure of work." On being told by Shri Krishna, Arjun got into the war and started fighting. He blew the conch. Bhishma became the first commander in Duryodhana's army. The commander of the Pandavas. There was Shikhandi. A huge war broke out between these two. In that war, the warriors of Kaurava side including Bhishma started attacking the soldiers of Pandava-side and Shikhandi etc. started aiming their arrows at the brave Kaurava-soldiers of Pandava-side. Kauravas and Pandavas That battle of the army looked like a Devasur-fight. Bhishma fought for ten days and killed most of the Pandava army with his arrows On the tenth day, Arjuna rained arrows heavily on Veervar Bhishma. Here, with the inspiration of Drupada, Shikhandi also shot a barrage of arrows at Bhishma like a cloud that rains water. Elephant riders, horse riders, charioteers and footmen on both sides were killed by arrows from each other. On the 10th day of the battle, Arjuna made Shikhandi sit in front of his chariot. Seeing Shikhandi ahead, Bhishma gave up his bow. After giving up his weapons, Arjuna put him to sleep on the bed of arrows. They started spending time meditating and praising Lord Vishnu while waiting for Uttarayan. When Duryodhana was distraught with grief after Bhishma fell on the arrow-bed, then Acharya Drona assumed the responsibility of the army. On the other hand, Dhrishtadyumna became the commander-in- chief of the army of the Pandavas, rejoicing. There was a fierce battle between both of them. King Virat and Drupad etc. drowned in the Drona-like ocean. At that time Drona used to live like Kaal. In the meantime, a voice came in his ears that 'Ashwatthama has been killed. On hearing this, Acharya Drona gave up his weapons. At such a time, he fell on the earth after being hurt by the arrows of Dhrishtadyumna. Dron was very tough. He was killed on the fifth day after destroying all the Kshatriyas Duryodhana again became restless with grief. At that time Karna became the captain of his army: Arjuna got the supremacy of the Pandava army. Karna and Arjuna had a great battle with different types of weapons and weapons, which was going to beat even the Devasur fight. In the fight between Karna and Arjuna, Karna killed many heroes of the enemy side with his arrows; Although the battle was becoming stalemated, Karna got bogged down when one of his chariot wheels sank into the earth (due to the curse of Mother Earth). He also finds himself unable to use divine weapons, as cursed by his guru Parashurama. Karna then descends to remove the wheel of his chariot and requests Arjuna to follow the rules of war and stop firing arrows at him for some time. Then Shri Krishna tells Arjuna that Karna has no right to talk about war rules and religion now, while he himself did not follow any war rules and religion at the time of Abhimanyu's slaughter. He further said that where was his dharma then when he called divine-born Draupadi a prostitute in front of the entire Kuru royal assembly. Where did his religion go in the gaming hall? That's why now he has no right to talk about any religion or war rules and he told Arjuna that Kamna is helpless now (the curse of Brahmin has come to fruition) so he should kill him. Shri Krishna says that if Arjuna does not kill Karna at this crucial juncture, then Pandavas will probably never be able to kill him and this war will never be won. Then, Arjuna killed Karna using a weapon. After Karna's body fell on the ground, King Shalya became the commander-in-chief of the Kaurava army, but he could last only half a day in the war. By noon, King Yudhishthira killed him. Almost the entire army of Duryodhana was killed in the war Ultimately he had a fight with Bhimsen. He attacked Bhimsen after killing many soldiers on the Pandava side. At that time, Duryodhana's other younger brothers were also killed by Bhimsen while striking with the mace. On that eighteenth day of the Mahabharata war, in the night time, the mighty Ashwatthama put the sleeping Akshauhini army of Pandavas to sleep forever. He did not even leave alive the five sons of Draupadi, his Panchaladeshi brothers and Dhrishtadyumna. Draupadi started crying after being childless. Then Arjuna defeated Ashwathama with the weapon of sink. Seeing him being killed, Draupadi herself saved his life by persuasion. Ashwatthama Despite this, the evil Ashwathama used a weapon on Uttara to destroy her womb. But Shri Krishna saved him. The same unborn child of Uttara later became known as King Parikshit. Kritavarma, Kripacharya and Ashwathama- these three Kaurava side heroes survived that battle. On the other hand the five Pandavas, Satyaki and Lord Krishna - only these seven could survive; No one else was left. At that time, the cries of orphaned women were spreading everywhere. Yudhishthira consoled him by going with Bhimsen etc. brothers and after cremating all the heroes killed in the battlefield, donated jalanjali de money etc. for them. After that, Yudhishthira went to Shantanunandan Bhishma, who was sitting on the Sharashaya in Kurukshetra, and heard from him all the peace-giving religion, Rajdharma (Apaddharma), Mokshadharma and Dandharma. Then he sat on the throne. After this, that Shatrumardan king performed Ashwamedha Yagya and donated a lot of money to the Brahmins in it. Thereafter, after hearing the news of the destruction of the Yadavas by mutual war due to the curse received from the mouth of Arjuna due to pestilence, Yudhishthira made Parikshit sit on the king's seat and himself went away with his brothers after making a great departure. When Yudhishthira sat on the throne. Then Dhritarashtra entered the Vanaprastha-Ashram from Grihastha-Ashram and went to the forest. (Or he went to the forest while passing from one hermitage of sages to another) He was accompanied by goddesses Gandhari and Pritha (Kunti). Vidur ji got burnt by the fire. In this way, Shri removed the burden of the earth and killed the demons etc. by making the Pandavas instruments for the establishment of religion and destruction of unrighteousness. After that, the Yadav clan, who increased the burden of the role, was also killed by the pestle on the pretext of the curse of the Brahmins. Aniruddha's son Vajra was anointed as the king. The imperishable Sri Hari is the goal of the meditative men. When he passed away, the sea left his personal abode and drowned the rest of Dwarkapuri in its waters. Arjun cremated the dead Yadavs and offered water for them and donated money etc. To the queens of Lord Krishna, who were earlier Apsaras. Take them to Hastinapur. On the way, the cowherds carrying sticks snatched them all, disrespecting Arjuna. Due to this, there was a lot of grief in Arjun's heart. Then on being consoled by Maharishi Vyas, he was convinced that I had strength only because of being close to Shri Krishna. Coming to Hastinapur, he along with his brothers requested all this news to King Yudhishthira, who used to follow the subjects at that time. They said - 'Brother! He is the bow, he is the arrow, he is the chariot and he is the horse, but without Shri Krishna everything is destroyed like the donation given to Ashrotriya. Hearing this, Dharmaraj Yudhishthira installed Parikshit on the kingdom. After this, thinking about the impermanence of the world, the wise king took Draupadi and his brothers along with him on the path of great departure towards the Himalayas. Draupadi, Sahadeva, Nakula, Arjuna and Bhimsen fell one by one in that great path. The king became sombre due to this.

MADAXWEYNE XASAN SHEEKH OO KORMEERAY XERADA HIIL-WEYNE OO LAGU DIYAARIYAY CIIDAMO KA TIRSAN XOOGGA DALKA OO KA QAYB-QAADANAYA SUGIDDA AMNIGA MUQDISHO.

Muqdisho, Maarso 07, 2023; Madaxweynaha Jamhuuriyadda Federaalka Soomaaliya Mudane Xasan Sheekh Maxamuud ayaa galinkii dambe ee maanta kormeer ku tagay xerada Hiil-weyne oo ku taala inta u dhaxeysa magaalada Muqdisho iyo degmada Balcad, halkaasi oo ay ku suganyihiin ciidamo ka tirsan Xoogga dalka oo dhawaan tababar kusoo qaatay dalka Yugaandha.

Ciidaman oo ah Millatariga sida Booliska u tababaran (Military-police) ayaa loogu tala-galay in ka qayb qaataan sugidda amniga magaalada Muqdisho, kana hortagaan falalka gurracan ee Khawaarijtu ku dhibaateeyaan shacabka soomaaliyeed.

Madaxweynaha ayaa kula dardaarmay ciidamada in ay si feejignaan, hubin, kala-dambayn iyo turid shacab leh u gutaan waajibaadka ka saaran sugidda amniga muwaadiniinta soomaaliyeed, ayna tusaale u noqdaan ciidamada kale ee ay kala dhaxeyso shaqada ilaalinta nabad-galyada dalka.

Madaxweyne Xasan Sheekh Maxamuud ayaa faray ciidamada in ay ilaaliyaan anshaxa iyo xeerarka ciidamada, masuuliyaddooda koowaadna ay ka dhigtaan ilaalinta badqabka, karaamada iyo nolasha muwaadiniinta Soomaaliyeed ee dhibbaneyaasha u ah dhagarta kooxaha Khawaarijta ah.

Kormeerkan waxaa ku wehlinayay Madaxweynaha Jamhuuriyadda Wasiirka Gaashaandhigga, Guddoomiyaha gobolka Benaadir iyo Taliyaha ciidamada Booliska soomaaliyeed.

DHAMMAAD

#SOMALIA
#SOMEESOCIAL
#SOMEENEWS

Maanta iyo kulan balaadhan reer irir samaale iyo sawiro qurux badan woow
#team somali somee

The GreyWarden deconstructs a Marxist Black Hand's dissertation. Enjoy reading our discussion and tell me who you think has the stronger arguments.

@Iblegend > I respectfully disagree with the argument presented. The definition of socialism varies depending on the particular ideology or political movement, and it is not accurate to claim that one specific interpretation is the only valid one. Furthermore, the argument seems to conflate different concepts and historical examples in a way that is not accurate or supported by evidence

Greywarden > And i thank you for actually debating the subject with me rather than running away. And no, definitions do not vary, they are clear cut. Socialism is the collective control or ownership of the means of production or state control of the economy. And you haven't proven how the arguments conflate different concepts that are unsupported by evidence. There is a plethora of evidence for the murder of the Kulax and for what were the intentions of the Marxist Socialists. But whatever.

@Iblegend > Firstly, the argument seems to suggest that collective control of the means of production can only be achieved by a specific group, such as a race, gender, or class collective. However, this is not necessarily the case. Socialism is based on the idea that the means of production should be owned and controlled collectively by society as a whole, rather than by private individuals or corporations. This can be achieved through a variety of means, such as worker cooperatives, state ownership, or community ownership

Greywarden > I never excluded society. You are creating a Strawman. Public Control, State Control, National Control, Group Control, Race Control, Worker Control or ownership of any of these are different forms of Socialism. I never claimed they are all the same. But for you to suggest that some how they are Capitalism because some forms of socialism are different is precisely where your error is, and you can't find a solution to this problem. I see you returned to the Corporation Fallacy again. Corporations are not Private, they are Publicly held and traded. Private cannot be Public Simultaneously and are two completely different things. Private individuals are you, i and Jose. If a collective owns or controls our economy than we as individuals are slaves of the State. Capitalism is none State. How do you address this problem?

@Iblegend > Secondly, the argument suggests that corporations are public sector entities and are a form of state-controlled syndicates. While it is true that some corporations are partially or wholly owned by the state, the majority of corporations are privately owned and operated for the benefit of their shareholders.

Greywarden > The above presents a major problem for you. You just said they are operated for the benefit of their shareholders? If Corporations are traded in the Stock Exchange than they aren't Private. They are owned by Society which is the Public. You make it seem as if Public Ownership is the samething as Private Ownership. No, Corporations aren't Privately owned. They are owned by a collective which is Society not indviduals. Even the "Private Corporations" are not Privately owned. If you look into the Koch Brothers Corporations you will see that a collective owns them. David Koch only had 42% ownership of Koch brothers industry before he died. There are a plethora of Coprations bundled together with the Koch brothers Industries. By definition they aren't really private, even if the Central State weren't to control them as they are controlled by their own collective who are deeply involved in Politics and swaying elections through dark money.

@Iblegend > Corporations operate within a market economy, where the means of production are owned by private individuals or corporations, not by society as a whole. This is fundamentally different from the socialist ideal of collective ownership and control of the means of production

Greywarden > No no no, that is rubbish. The Private Individual does not own the means of production of the Market Economy. The market is state controlled which gives the state defacto ownership of the means of production, not the private individual as you assert.

Greywarden > The majority of Corporation are in the Stock Exchange which are Publicly Traded and State Controlled which in turn is Socialism not Capitalism. The Public owns Corporations. The Public Sector cannot simultaneously be the Private Sector. Furthermore, to conclude that Socialism is none Market is erroneous. Marxism may be non market. But in no way does Marxism define Socialism accurately other than being another form of Socialism. If a Market is controlled by the State, then it isn't a free market and thus not a Capitalist Market. You do not accurately understand the definition of Socialism. Just because a Market exists does not automatically mean it is a Capitalist Market.

Greywarden > Moreover, where there are Black Markets, that only means there is Socialism. Black Markets cannot exist in Capitalist Economies where everyone is fending for themselves. The U.S has a black market which proves it is a Socialist Economy. The Black Markets are the Capitalists lol.

Greywarden > But if you still believe the individual has private ownership in the U.S. Why don't you put this to the test. Buy a home with Cash without depending on banks. Then try never agreeing to pay your property taxes. Comeback to me and tell me if you are able to keep your home. You are not a private owner of what you are led to believe is your own property. Even Cuba is more Capitalist when it comes to property. Any property that are Purchased in Cuba are yours and you aren't tax for it. The property actually belongs to you the individual..

@Iblegend > Thirdly, the argument makes an inaccurate and unfair comparison between socialism and fascism. Fascism is a far-right ideology that is based on authoritarianism, nationalism, and the suppression of individual rights and freedoms.

Greywarden > You haven't proven that Fascism is a Far Right Ideology. Doesn't seem like you have read the works of Mussolini as i have been doing. Mussolini had State Control of the Means of Production during his Reign. Mussolini said like this in his speech in Milan and you can look it up if you'd like, "Everything in the State, nothing outside the state, nothing against the state." If you study Mussolini closely, which i am sure you haven't. You will see that Mussolini Socialized the people through their Italian Nationality. His Socialism was based on the Italian Nationality as he tried to bring all Italians together under the State. There is no possible way Mussolini was a Capitalist. Mussolini and even the inventor of Fascism Gentile were opponents of Capitalism. They hated Capitalism! Moreover, Nationalism and Socialism are one and the same. To Nationalise a business is the same as Socialising a Business. To Nationalise the people is the same as Socialisng the people. What exactly is the difference between Nationalizing the Economy or Socializing the Economy? What is the difference between Nationalization of the Private Sector or Socialization of the Private Sector? You tell me..

@Iblegend > It is not accurate to claim that fascism is a form of socialism, or that Mussolini was a socialist. Mussolini and the fascist regime in Italy were fiercely anti-socialist and anti-communist, and actively suppressed socialist and labor movements.

Greywarden > Actually they weren't Anti-Socialist lol. Mussolini tried to end the Class Crisis Marxism had caused by offering people another version of Socialism Gentile called Fascism. Mussolini was the man that put Gentile's ideas into practice. Mussolini offered Fascism as a third way between Marxism and Capitalism. Even if you are able to prove that Mussolini hated Marxism because he was kicked out of the Marxist anti war party of Italy for being a warmonger. You still can't prove that by default that makes him a Capitalist as he also hated Capitalism. You see, your ideas blind you from the facts that Mussolini hated Capitalism as well, and thus couldn't be a Capitalist just because he was not a Marxist.

@Iblegend > Finally, the argument suggests that individualism and collectivism are polar opposites, and that socialism necessarily entails state control of the economy and the suppression of individual freedom. However, this is a simplistic and inaccurate view of both individualism and collectivism. In reality, most political and economic systems contain elements of both individualism and collectivism, and the relationship between the two is complex and multifaceted. It is possible to have a socialist system that allows for individual autonomy and freedom, while still maintaining collective control over the means of production.

Greywarden > There is no argument that says that Collectivism and Individualism are Polar Opposites. Collectivism and Individualism by definition are Polar Opposites and that is a fact. The only reason why some socialist economies allow for some individual freedoms is because they haven't implemented full socialism. Individual ownership and control of your own economy is Capitalism not Socialism. You haven't proven how individualism can be one and the same as collectivism. You are dancing around the points I've made by trying to prove that Individualism can mean two things at once which isn't possible. And mocking arguments you can't refute by calling them simplistic does not make your case that Individualism can mean the same thing as Collectivism stronger. It actually exposes a huge contradiction with your line of reasoning that you can't resolve.

@Iblegend > In conclusion, the argument presented contains several inaccuracies and conflations of different concepts and historical examples. It is important to approach these complex issues with nuance and accuracy, rather than resorting to simplistic and inaccurate comparisons and generalizations.

Greywarden > Again you accuse me of being simplistic because i am taking definitions of terms at face value and not trying to explain away how Private can mean Public at the same time and how an individual can mean a collective at the same time. If you weren't blinded by the doctrines of Marxists you would be able to see how illogical your position is. You are not going to win a debate through illogic

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Waxaa uu ka waramayaa waxyaabaha ay ku kala duwan Somalida iyo Carabtu, marka ay timaado waxyaabaha ay ku qoslaan.

Nuuradiin Axmed Yasin ayaa isaguna sawirka nagu weheliya, walaalnimadayada ka sokow, Waxaa uu ka mid yahay ragii caanka ku ahaa Basketball -kii ciyaarahii gobolada ee Somalia.

waxaan kula murmaya dad maalqabeen ah baraha bulshada
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Hooyo mcn allh kuunaxriisto naxriis jano allh kusiiyo hooyo mcn hooyo maoktahy marwaliba waan kuuxiisaa badaalkaaga mahelaayi hooyo mcn aad ayaan kuujeclhy inkastoo aad kuugu xiisy oohadana codkaaga aan maqli Karin hadana waan kuuduceeyaa marwaliba janada inaa kukulannaa rajaaynaa hooyo mcn aad ayaan kuugu xiisy